9sec240
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naturalasperiphobic
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Post by 9sec240 on Jan 10, 2010 15:46:30 GMT -5
Scorpion HK-3026 V2 1600kv motor in a plastic 425 kit. Is there a possible gearing combo for this motor? I found one for sale and the guy selling it says he has an 11T pinion on it. I can't even find one listed in the instruction manual.
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Post by Jerrymac on Jan 10, 2010 23:53:58 GMT -5
Gaui only makes the pinions in 13, 14, 15, and 16 T. I believe they are a mod .8 . I have heard of guys running car pinions from Tower Hobbies, but have no experience with that. You should be able to run a 14 T pinion with a 50T main gear and get somewhere around 2600 head speed . Here is a head speed calculator for the Hurricane. Just make sure to enter the motor kv since it don't have a 1600 to choose from. www.ezfly.se/hscalc.htm
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Post by billmay on Jan 11, 2010 10:17:52 GMT -5
Gaui only makes the pinions in 13, 14, 15, and 16 T. I believe they are a mod .8 . I have heard of guys running car pinions from Tower Hobbies, but have no experience with that. I have a couple of the Tower Hobbies .8 mod pinions and they do work. I bought them because the Gaui's seemed to be in short supply at the time.
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9sec240
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naturalasperiphobic
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Post by 9sec240 on Jan 14, 2010 21:53:00 GMT -5
So I picked up this heli. It is the plastic 425 kit with no main blades.
It came with a CC ICE 100A ESC, CC BEC, AR7000 RX, Scorpion 3026 1600kv and three Spektrum / JR DS821 servos.
I am going to move some of the electronics around and get this thing flying eventually. Should be fun but I will need some help and guidance from you Gaui 425 experts.
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Post by dunkonu23 on Jan 14, 2010 23:42:22 GMT -5
Ivan... man!!! Congratulations and welcome to the unwashed masses of Gaui fans! LOL! We're all here to help! It sounds like you have a pretty good setup already. I think the CC BEC is redundant because the ICE already has a programmable BEC in it--granted it's not as programmable as the standalone, but it does the job and you don't have the issues that others have had with their CC BEC to worry about. That said, I've got a CC BEC on my BH500 and it has been nothing but invisible, which is a good thing! Any gyro/tail servo in the setup, Ivan? Scott
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Post by Jerrymac on Jan 15, 2010 4:18:35 GMT -5
Hey Ivan, congrats on the new Hurri 425. You know, Scott's started out as a 425 but he stretched his to a 550. They both use a lot of the same parts. My first one was a 550, but I am now building a 425 kit that Scott picked up for me it IRCHA last summer.
Not too sure how many "experts" we have on here, but, between Scott, Bill, and myself, I think we will be able to give you some advise on the "good" the "bad" and the "ugly" on the Hurri 425/550.
Hopefully the kit it was built from was not one of the early kits as the frames were weak and flexed badly causing gear stripping. Gaui made the plastic frames stronger on the later kits. I am using the plastic frame but I made an aluminum stiffening plate for the area between the motor mount and main shaft to reduce frame flex even though I have the updated frame.
For the ultimate 425/550 build, check out Scott's thread on the Head Hunter frames.
Good luck with the build.
Jerry
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9sec240
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naturalasperiphobic
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Post by 9sec240 on Jan 15, 2010 8:34:18 GMT -5
How many amps will the electronics pull on the heli? Three mini servos, gyro, tail servo and RX.
I had suggested using a CC BEC on my 600 and people said that the CC BEC would not be enough and I would need the CC Pro BEC. The CC BEC is rated to 5A at 24V 7A at 12V and 10A peak. The internal BEC on the ICE 100 is also rated to 5A.
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Post by dunkonu23 on Jan 15, 2010 12:58:44 GMT -5
The amps for electronics I don't know. I do know that a 100amp ESC on the 425 is a bit of overkill for a 425. I have the ICE 75 in my 425 stretch and it never has popped above rated current and I'm using its BEC set to 6volts with Hyperion cyclics and a 9256 for the rudder. I've never come close to a power issue. Everything always comes down at ambient. Even in the winter. Scott How many amps will the electronics pull on the heli? Three mini servos, gyro, tail servo and RX. I had suggested using a CC BEC on my 600 and people said that the CC BEC would not be enough and I would need the CC Pro BEC. The CC BEC is rated to 5A at 24V 7A at 12V and 10A peak. The internal BEC on the ICE 100 is also rated to 5A.
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9sec240
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Post by 9sec240 on Jan 15, 2010 19:55:35 GMT -5
Yeah Scott, I think that the 100 is overkill too. Here are my plans for the electronics.
Align 500L motor from my ESP is going on the Gaui 425. Align 75A ESC from my ESP is going on the Gaui 425.
Scorpion 3026-1600 is going on my 500 ESP.
CC ICE 100A is going to go on my 600 ESP.
That leaves the question of what to do for an ESC on my 500 ESP. I have the Align 100A ESC that came with the 600 ESP or a brand new Align 75A ESC from a 500 ESP kit I bought a while back.
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Post by dunkonu23 on Jan 16, 2010 0:30:14 GMT -5
I was thinking about the amps question... A lot of servo manufacturers list current draw in both idle state and under load (I found this out researching servos for the Velocity 50). I don't know what the receiver and gyro requirements and load are, though. So, what I would do, and I'm sure you've done this, but in case you haven't... I would research your choices on the manufacturer's site. Then once you have all the figures, I would simply add up the current load. I'd be surprised if it was over 300mAh, though. Those plans sound good. I'd just use the Align ESC in the 500 esp. You do have a lot of helicopters, bro! Scott Yeah Scott, I think that the 100 is overkill too. Here are my plans for the electronics. Align 500L motor from my ESP is going on the Gaui 425. Align 75A ESC from my ESP is going on the Gaui 425. Scorpion 3026-1600 is going on my 500 ESP. CC ICE 100A is going to go on my 600 ESP. That leaves the question of what to do for an ESC on my 500 ESP. I have the Align 100A ESC that came with the 600 ESP or a brand new Align 75A ESC from a 500 ESP kit I bought a while back.
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9sec240
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Post by 9sec240 on Jan 16, 2010 13:35:26 GMT -5
OK guys, first round of build questions.
I counted the teeth on the heli today and came up with the following:
13T pinion 50T front main 19T one way 61T rear main
With a 1600kv motor, this pushes head speed way up there.
Looking at Nexgen's suggestions of 13T 60T 20T 61T seems more reasonable and drops head speed around 300 RPMs over the gearing now. OK.. now for some questions.
It looks like the one way and the rear main are in fixed positions. How can you put a larger one way in and still have proper gear mesh? Wont moving up from a 19T to a 20T one way make the gears bind?
Based on the head speed calculator, it looks like I can keep the 19T one way and move up to a 14T pinion which puts me right around the same head speed. Should I just leave the 19T one way or is there a real good reason for the jump up to a 20T? It looks like this is a high torque area so maybe the 20T helps keep the gear from stripping??? Anybody got some helpful advice here?
Last question is main grips. It looks like the plastic grips are made for 12mm root blades. I assume this is so you can use the same grips for 550mm blades. The SAB 425mm blades I have for the Gaui are 9mm. I have four shims that were on the grips when I got the heli but they only make up half the distance. Am I missing shims? I am missing other things for the heli like the horizontal stab and a ball link so missing some grip shims would not be out of the question.
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Post by dunkonu23 on Jan 16, 2010 15:28:46 GMT -5
Ivan, Regarding the 20 tooth OWB gear. It works fine. I haven't used a 60 tooth main gear. I've used the 42 tooth and 50 tooth front main gear. I've also used 13, 14, and 16 tooth pinions. I see your point but the only thing I can offer is this: They wouldn't make it if it didn't fit. You nailed the reason most of us use 20 tooth gear over the 19 tooth: Stripping. The other solution would be to simply use the 20 tooth OWB Gear in your current configuration and use throttle curves to adjust head speed. Mine came with four, too. I'd be happy to send what I have to you. I'll also throw in some Radix shims, they're thicker and have a smaller diameter but fit the bolt. PM me your address and they're there... free. Based on your stock gearing I get 2800 or so RPM. that's about right, bro. My T-Rex 500 esp turns 2950. But if you want to lower it, like I said, throttle curves. I've lowered my head speed from 2500 in my 550 to 2100 and 2200 in the idle ups via curves and taching. Scott OK guys, first round of build questions. I counted the teeth on the heli today and came up with the following: 13T pinion 50T front main 19T one way 61T rear main With a 1600kv motor, this pushes head speed way up there. Looking at Nexgen's suggestions of 13T 60T 20T 61T seems more reasonable and drops head speed around 300 RPMs over the gearing now. OK.. now for some questions. It looks like the one way and the rear main are in fixed positions. How can you put a larger one way in and still have proper gear mesh? Wont moving up from a 19T to a 20T one way make the gears bind? Based on the head speed calculator, it looks like I can keep the 19T one way and move up to a 14T pinion which puts me right around the same head speed. Should I just leave the 19T one way or is there a real good reason for the jump up to a 20T? It looks like this is a high torque area so maybe the 20T helps keep the gear from stripping??? Anybody got some helpful advice here? Last question is main grips. It looks like the plastic grips are made for 12mm root blades. I assume this is so you can use the same grips for 550mm blades. The SAB 425mm blades I have for the Gaui are 9mm. I have four shims that were on the grips when I got the heli but they only make up half the distance. Am I missing shims? I am missing other things for the heli like the horizontal stab and a ball link so missing some grip shims would not be out of the question.
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Post by Jerrymac on Jan 16, 2010 23:07:18 GMT -5
I have read quite a few comments about the 19T OW gear splitting between the gears although I originally used one on my 550 with no problems. Based on reading so many comments about that, I just went ahead and installed the 20T on my 425 too. Although the OW shaft and rear main gear are not adjustable the gears still mesh fine with the 20T gear.
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9sec240
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naturalasperiphobic
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Post by 9sec240 on Jan 18, 2010 0:29:25 GMT -5
What is a typical head speed for a Gaui 425? Thinking about what Scott said about head speeds on his 500 ESP has me wondering why people are recommending such slow head speeds on my 425. Are the plastic grips the issue? I remember somebody talking about less expensive CNC grips that worked well.. anybody got a link?
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Post by Jerrymac on Jan 18, 2010 1:56:56 GMT -5
Ivan, as far as the head speed goes, the 425 manual recommends a head speed of 2750 when using the stock all plastic head, and a minimum head speed of 2600. It does not state a max head speed though. I think it has to do with the plastic grips. The motor and gearing recommended in the 550 manual for stock plastic head and wood blades, gives a head speed of 1800, but guys are running as much as 2500 with aluminum head and CF blades. Don't know about which cnc grips work well as I bought a complete Gaui cnc head assembly when they were on sale for $149, which is half price. The best price I have found for the Gaui grips is $51.95 at GrandRc, and if you have never bought from them, they are giving all new customers 10% right now. www.grandrc.com/inc/sdetail/101274
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Post by dunkonu23 on Jan 18, 2010 4:40:17 GMT -5
Ivan, Yep, it's the grips. Here's a link to alternative grips... they're from CNC heli. I use their V2 tail assembly and it's the best belt driven tail i've come across. I haven't used their main grips, but they say they fit. www.cnchelicopter.com/servlet/the-1019/UGK02-HURRICANE-550-CNC/DetailScott What is a typical head speed for a Gaui 425? Thinking about what Scott said about head speeds on his 500 ESP has me wondering why people are recommending such slow head speeds on my 425. Are the plastic grips the issue? I remember somebody talking about less expensive CNC grips that worked well.. anybody got a link?
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Post by billmay on Jan 18, 2010 11:15:50 GMT -5
Scott/Ivan, I really like the Cncheli/Sonix stuff (have them in my 3DX450) but I've read that those grips use the 3 mm grip bolts (like the stock plastic grips) but the Gaui CNC grips use the 4mm bolts. I don't know for sure that it's true but it's something to consider. I have the Gaui's on my H550 and I guess I'd rather go with the larger bolts. Also, if you ever would convert the 425 to a 550 you'll find that most 500-550 blades have the 4mm mounting hole which means you would have to use an adapter sleeve to use the 3 mm bolts. Anyway, not absolutely sure on this but I would check into it before I got something other than the Gaui's. I would also get the CNC center T-hub to go along with the CNC grips so that everything between the blades and the main shaft is metal. Bill
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9sec240
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Post by 9sec240 on Jan 18, 2010 20:24:51 GMT -5
Very good point Bill. I like the look of the Ultimate Performance Upgrade kit. That seems to have the right components at the right price. The blades I currently have for the Gaui are 3mm (SAB CF blades)
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Post by dunkonu23 on Jan 18, 2010 23:19:08 GMT -5
The performance upgrade is a good way to go. The metal head block is also a good addition. About the only thing I'd be aware of is the grip bolts vs your blade of choice. I never built the 425 so I'm really stretching here with respect to bolt size. I just used what came with my CNC head assembly upgrade and it fit the 550mm blades I'm using.
Scott
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Post by billmay on Jan 18, 2010 23:50:13 GMT -5
Ivan, after I wrote my message I realized that the 425 mm blades probably had a 3 mm mounting hole. I believe I read somewhere that you can actually get flanged washers that will sit in the 4mm hole of the grips but have a 3mm hole in them for the smaller bolts. I guess the point was that you can use 3 mm bolts in a 4 mm grip hole but you can't do it the other way around. Anyway, just something to be aware of.
I actually got the Ultimate Performance upgrade myself. However, like most others, I found that the thrust bearing tail grip upgrade ends up giving you wobbly grips so I went back to the stock grips for now. I'm also not ready for the lighter paddles yet so I really only ended up using the CNC main grips and center hub for now.
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